How to Use Your Privilege (Yes, Yours) to Stop Racism - Melanie Hood-Wilson (POY 65)

There's a lot of buzzwords used during discussions about race and racism in the United States. Some of them include dei, Christian nationalism, social justice, and wokeness. You've probably heard of a few of those, but I wanted to talk today about one word in privilege. What is privilege? Who has it, and how can we use it to help others? So I taught with an emerging voice in the anti racism movement about how privilege factors into conversations about race. We'll also talk about how you can use the privilege you have to stop instances of racism that may be happening in your life. I'm Josh Morgan. That conversation is coming up next on the Plural of youf, the podcast about people helping people. I'm an applied sociologist and aspiring helper living in Huntsville, Alabama, and I'm on a mission to promote two beliefs in my life that humans are social beings, and because of that, we all benefit when we help one another. So I publish this podcast on the 15th of every month to share how we can all be better helpers for those that we care about. If you haven't already, subscribe to the Plural Review wherever you get your podcasts and sign up for the monthly newsletter. That newsletter has media pics, occasional blog posts and news from previous guests and things like that. So sign [email protected] Newsletter for now, put this episode on in the background of whatever you're doing, and I hope you enjoy the show. This month. I'd like to introduce you to Melanie Hood Wilson. Melanie's the owner and principal consultant at Melanie Hood Wilson and Associates, which is a consulting company in Baltimore, Maryland. It's tough to summarize Melanie's career and accolades in just a few minutes, but she's an educator and former public school teacher who now focuses on changing organizations and uniting communities. In 2019, she founded her consulting firm to leverage her decades of experience for prospective clients. She now consults on programs and projects around the country that relate to teaching, learning, diversity, equity, and inclusion. You've probably heard those last three in the news lately. DEI Accessibility should really be included in the acronym to make it deia, but I'll shorten it to DEI to match the national debate. But after Donald Trump was elected a second time in November 2024, Melanie felt frustrated and betrayed by her fellow Americans. You probably recall how Trump campaigned in 2024 on rolling back DEI protections, deporting millions of immigrants, promoting nationalist language, and other actions that watchdog groups have classified as racist. The point is that Melanie was compelled to do something after Trump's second election. She brainstormed with her friends and fellow associates for a couple months, then launched something radical. In January 2025, she started a platform on her website where people who were equally agitated could gather and discuss what to do next. She calls those caucuses, and they consist of white, black, and queer groups that meet regularly to build communities online. She referred to the content as courses when she first mentioned them in my newsfeed in January, but they've since evolved into part support group and part community organization effort. They're also expanding quickly. She told me that they'll be rolling out an archive of webinars, online resources, and even a children's curriculum coming later this year. So why is all this necessary? Well, it's related to why DEI has been so controversial and so misunderstood. Opponents of DEI have called it reverse discrimination or alleged that it's placed on qualified people of color in critical positions throughout society. Melanie and others would argue differently that DEI actually empowers capable people who happen to be from groups that have been historically excluded from participating. That's why I approached Melody about being on the podcast, because she's become a leading voice of reason in the debate over dei, and I really admire that she stood up for her beliefs about helping others. Now, I want to note a couple things before I play my conversation with Melanie. So first, I've avoided devoting an episode of the Plural review to racism for a long time. I mean, it took me 65 episodes for me to get to it, and for that I apologize. And there are several reasons for why it took so long for me to get to it, but the major one is that I didn't want the Plural view as a project to seem politically biased. I've really tried to hold a Fred Rogers like approach where I thought promoting empathy in general would be adequate to address politically charged issues like race. And that approach is fine in some contexts, but if I'm going to be a co conspirator against racism, as Melanie would put it, then it's not enough for me to tiptoe around this particular issue. I need to do better. So this episode is my attempt at getting started. The second thing I wanted to note is that I pulled a rookie move in talking with Melanie, and this is actually our second conversation because I didn't properly record our first one. I've been doing this for over 10 years now, so I guess it goes to show that I'll never be perfect at it. And that's okay. We'll mention that a couple times or so. So that's what we're referring to when we're talking about having another conversation. Anyway, longer intro today, but I appreciate you checking out my conversation with Melanie Hood Wilson, owner and principal consultant at Melanie Hood Wilson and Associates. I'm glad we're talking again because I've.

Had a lot of time to reflect on things that we talked about the first time. And one of those things is that, you know, for all the reading I've done on being an ally to anti racism and trying to do my best to feel like I'm contributing to the cause, I think that's the operative word. I think what I've done so far has just kind of made me feel like I'm contributing to this as a social problem, like I'm not actually doing anything.

Right.

After our talk last time, I've had some time to think about it. And yeah, I think that's where I'm coming into this conversation the second time around is just kind of seeking your insight into what maybe I could do better to be a better ally. Does that make sense?

Well, it does. It makes perfect sense. And there's kind of a lot to tackle there. I mean, the first thing I would want to say is I really hate the term ally. No, please don't be, don't be sorry because you never learn if you don't make mistakes. But also, I don't even know if it's a mistake. It's just a personal preference of mine, but I think a growing personal preference of a lot of people in marginalized communities. I've always hated anyone from a dominant group pronouncing themselves allies of any other group. That's for the people in that group to call you, if that makes sense.

Yes, it does. I'm glad you put it that way because I guess what I meant when I said, what I said was I feel like I'm doing my part, but that's in some ways, if I kind of take an objective view, step outside of myself, it's almost performative on my part. And I'm. I'm just hoping to be better because there's so much more that I could be doing that I don't necessarily know because I, I guess I haven't been exposed to or it may make me uncomfortable.

Well, I think that's, that's really common and it can feel so hard to get it right. It really can. And I say that from all vantage points for anyone who is part of a dominant group that is working and who's really trying to do the work of supporting marginalized groups and marginalized communities, but in a way that is respectful, in a way that follows their lead, in a way that asks, you know, what can I do to support, what can I do to advocate, et cetera, as opposed to coming in and taking up space? I mean, those are all the things that we've been asking, right, for the longest time. The problem is that as American society progresses and things have progressed very, very, very quickly on the racial front, especially with the election of Obama, black people started to talk more openly about issues of race. And I can't speak for other groups, but I really would say that other groups, other people of color, did as well, because there was this whole idea that, oh, wow, well, if this many white people voted for this black man, we must be in a place where we can really have con. And even in 2020, I think we all felt that we were kind of, at least together as a country. We might not be 100% in sync, but I think we all thought that we had sort of common goals and a common viewpoint of where we should be heading. But we are now in a different moment. We're now living in a moment where more than half of white Americans have basically declared war on people of color. You know, electing people and supporting people whose policies are very blatantly. I mean, not just blatantly. They're literally saying on the political stage that their goal is to disenfranchise people of color. Their goal is to disenfranchise immigrants. Their goal is to disenfranchise women. So being an ally, being someone who has well wishes and is a safe person to talk to without having to maybe endure racist questions or comments based on stereotype, that's not really enough anymore. What you're. What you began with. Action. If you're an ally, good on you, but you're not of any use to me anymore. We need co conspirators, right? We need people who are willing to figure out how to use their privilege, whether it's as white people, whether it is as straight people, whether it's as cisgender people, whether it's as Christians, whatever dominant group belong to. We are now in need of people who belong to dominant groups who are willing to do the work of actively dismantling these systems of oppression, these systems of patriarchy, these systems of white supremacy and systemic racism that keep every group but white cisgender men from being able to obtain a certain level of success in this country. That's the work that has to be done.

I would like to go back to Something you said a little bit ago about privilege, because some people that may be listening, and this was me up until I had some race equity training of my own. I didn't think I had any privilege. And I suspect there may be some people listening who were like, well, I.

Grew up poor, or I grew up.

Without this or that, and I don't have any special privileges. So I'm wondering, can you explain to people that may be confused about their privilege, like, what they may actually have that they can use?

Absolutely. Everybody has privilege. I have privilege. I am a queer, black disabled woman, and I have privilege. I was raised in a two parent household. My mom and dad both were. Were civil servants. My dad was a firefighter, my mom a public school teacher. That meant that I had health insurance and my parents, you know, had pensions. And, you know, I never had to worry where a meal was going to come from. I never had to be concerned about my home being foreclosed on or being, you know, kicked out of a house I lived in or being unhoused in any way.

You had stability.

I had stability. And that is privilege. We had a car. Think about even just having an automobile is a point of privilege. We all have privilege. Some have more privilege than others, but we all have privilege. So it is the height of arrogance for anyone to say, well, I don't have privilege because I'm poor, or I don't have privilege because I'm a woman, or I don't have privilege because I'm filling the place. Everybody has privilege.

I think the point you're making is that it's not all or nothing.

It's not all or nothing. I sincerely doubt that any white man in America, if asked if he would sincerely trade places today with a black man of equal socioeconomic status, I sincerely doubt that he would. Because white people know that there are ways in which things are harder for black people in this country, whether they think that black people bring these things on themselves or not. I think that we all agree. I think that we all agree it's harder for people who are indigenous and live on reservations in this country, or indigenous people in general, but it's harder on reservations than it is in, let's say, a white suburb. We all know that it's much easier to walk through this world as a cisgender person, and especially a cisgender heterosexual person. There are so many hate crimes that you would not even think to be concerned about. There are so many ways in which you might face danger just walking down the street that you would never Even that would never occur to you that are the everyday experience of someone who is trans or non binary. So as a Christian, it never occurs to me that when there is an economic blackout that takes place on a Friday through Saturday, we're denying our Jewish brothers and sisters an opportunity to participate because that takes place during the Sabbath.

Oh, I hadn't thought of that.

That's a good point.

Yeah. Privilege is one of those things that you don't notice until you're the one who doesn't have it. Which is why when other people say to you that you have privilege, it's one of those where you really shouldn't question it. Just think about it. You don't even. I'm not even asking that you agree and say, oh my God, I have so much privilege, but at least take it on, think about it seriously.

Yeah. So I appreciate that you put it that way, because I know when I went through my training, and not that I'm an expert by any means, but just going through a training helped me realize that even though I grew up in an abusive household and had some trauma and things like that from it, I still had some stability. I still had, like, when I became a teenager, I had a car, things like that. I still had privilege to the point.

Where I could go to work.

Even though I had menial jobs for a while, I was able to build.

A life for myself.

And I know that's a form of privilege that I have benefited from, that other people, they haven't had a stable home or the means to support themselves as much as they might want to.

Right. And then some privilege comes from being devoid of certain stereotypes or in some cases, being the beneficiary of certain stereotypes. Because there are certain stereotypes that are beneficial to certain groups, certain demographics, but typically they are very harmful. And you know, when you're not a beneficiary of harmful stereotypes, it is definitely something that, you know, impacts how much privilege you end up being able to have walking into a room, how much privilege you have in the workplace quite frequently how much privilege you have when you are a customer wanting to do business in certain settings and especially financial institutions. I mean, all of those things. And again, there's the privilege that comes with any way that you fit into a norm, into what Western society has determined to be a norm. So that goes with gender norms. That goes with the idea that in Western society, white has been designated as the norm in terms of race, or that male has always been designated as the norm in terms of gender. And all of those Things end up creating systems of privilege even beyond just those, you know, those elements of privilege within our own groups. So what I was talking about are ways in which I have privilege within my. One of my own demographic groups. I have privilege within the queer community in that I'm a pansexual who's married to a cisgender man. So when I'm walking down the street, you don't really know I'm queer unless I tell you I am. So I'm far less likely to be harassed, and I'm far less likely to be the victim of violence. And that's privilege that I have within the queer community. So privilege is, in its own way, a spectrum. We all have it, we all need to recognize it. And to deny it, to deny it is not only an insult to people who don't have it, but it's basically relinquishing your obligation to help other people or to be supportive of or to make community with 100%. Yes, who deny who don't have that privilege.

When we last spoke, you said that you kind of sprang into action after the election on November 5, 2024, to design courses and webinars to meet the moment in our country that we were about to go through. And I'm wondering, it's been a few months since those courses and things have been active.

How are they going?

What's the experience been like for you as an educator in those courses?

Interesting. What I'm finding is that in this moment, people are a lot less interested in classes or courses, and they're far more interested in coming together in communities. Going back to the first thing that you said as we were talking today, there are a lot of people right now who really are interested in figuring out how to take action. So we have a white caucus, which takes place two Tuesdays a month. And that caucus is specifically for people who are white and who are ready to make that transition that you're talking about from allyship to co conspirator. So people who want to leave the point of, I've read the books. I understand what white fragility is. I get what anti racism is. And I, you know, I'm trying to, you know, make myself more aware so that I can be a better ally. We're inviting folks who have done that work and are now moving into, okay, what is the action I can take? What are the things that I can be doing to dismantle white supremacy? Those are the people that are finding a home right now in our white caucus. And we also have I mean, we've considered having some groups for folks who are not quite at that same place in the work or in their journeys, but most of the people that we're working with right now are really sort of. They're really in that place that you are. How do I take action? So we've found that that has been very effective. We've gotten wonderful feedback. The group continues to grow. We are now starting a black caucus, which later this month, two weeks from now, will have its first meeting. That caucus, similarly, is for black folks, black people who are at this moment trying to figure out, how do we survive this? How do we support each other? There's so many questions, so many ways that we need to figure out right now what. How to manage the struggle that's ahead. Beginning on Wednesday of next week, is our LGBTQ caucus, which is called Queer Conspiracy.

I was going to remark on that name. I love the name of that.

Yes, the facilitator Tele Showstack is the one who came up with that name. I think I'd called it LGBTQ Caucus, and they said, well, you know, I'd like Queer Conspiracy. I'm like, okay, rock on. I mean, great. So, yeah, that is doing the same work, you know, gathering people, gathering a community, talking about where the dangers are, how to support each other, how to get through this time. And I really love the fact that I can dedicate my business to trying to save this country in whatever ways, or save communities that need saving within this country. I am very much of the mindset at this point that only white people can save America, because if you look at the last election, only white people voted primarily for Donald Trump. We all, as people of color, cannot fix something that we didn't break.

Right?

Most queer folks did not vote for Donald Trump. We, as a queer community, can't fix the system that straight people broke. So this is something where it's twofold. The work is one, to help arm those people from those dominant communities that can make a difference going forward and whose fight this is. We want to arm you. We want to help you. This is where people of color being allies comes in. My company can be an ally as you figure out how to do the work as white people of dismantling white supremacy and patriarchy for that matter. That's work that we can do with you. What we do with other communities with, you know, marginalized communities is for us all to be able to use our time and our energies and our resources to figure out how to survive it. In the meantime, while you guys fix it. We're gonna survive it. Because as we know, I mean, we know racism is something that people of color didn't create, but it impacts us at far greater levels than it does white folks.

Last time we spoke, I asked you.

The question, you know, if white people are the dominant group in the country, then what can we do? Or what can I do to, you know, help the situation?

And the first word you mentioned was strategy.

Like, need a strategy.

What types of strategies have you seen.

Be effective in this work that we can engage in?

First of all, use your privilege in every situation that you possibly can. If you are in the workplace and you are seeing that the people who are around you, your peers, your colleagues, especially if you are at an executive level or a junior executive level, and you notice that as folks go higher up the food chain, up the hierarchy of the organization, it gets wider and wider, or mailer and mailer or both. That's a great opportunity for you to put yourself on some search committees and start asking, do we have a more diverse hiring pool? How can we get a more diverse, diverse hiring pool? I'd love to see more candidates or, you know, I see we're maybe dismissing this candidate because of xyz. Let's think about that. Maybe it's the person's college is one that's unfamiliar because it's an hbcu. Maybe it's because the person's work experience or internship experiences have not been as stellar because internships are also a point of privilege. You know, kids who don't have a ton of money often are not able to participate in internships, especially if they're unpaid internships when you're in college.

Yes, true.

You know, there's so many factors of privilege. I'm also introducing people to expanding the networks of people who don't come from backgrounds that. That will necessarily include people who are parts of those sorts of business networks or may not be. When someone says, you know, oh, no one in my family's worked in this field, other, you know, that's a great opportunity to say, let me introduce you to some, to lots of folks who work in this field who can be, you know, useful to you. People talk about mentoring, but sponsorship is necessary. Mentoring is. Look at this nice young person. I'm going to, you know, teach her some ropes, and if there are opportunities, I'm going to let her know that there's some opportunities that she can go, you know, go for. Sponsorship is. Look at this nice young person who's got a great set of Skills. I'm going to introduce her to my networks. I'm going to show her how I got to where I am in my career, and I'm going to encourage her. If there are training programs, professional development opportunities, degree or certificate programs that would help her to be able to move forward, I'm going to recommend those things to her. And if I can help get her into those by writing a letter of recommendation, that's what sponsorship is. And we need more of that because we know that in terms of, especially in the business world, those opportunities have always been purposely and systemically limited to a lot of populations in this country. Women also, by the way, men of all races. So sponsorship is another way. And those are just things in the business world. They're looking for strategies in the community. Speaking up. Always speaking up when you hear injustice, asking questions when people are going down thought paths or making decisions that are based in bigotry, based in racism, based in misogyny, homophobia, transphobia. Just asking the questions of people. Well, what makes you think that? What's the danger that you think there would be for us? And what information are you basing that on, et cetera? Really challenge people and challenge their thinking. Reaching out to. And using political influence. Using political influence, number one, but also reaching out to political leaders, representatives, governor, mayor, county commissioner, whoever. When you see systemic issues that seem to be racist or homophobic, transphobic, etc. In your community. We've all seen or witnessed issues around policing that we think are unfair or situations that we've witnessed. How many of us actually call those in? How many of us actually. You know, there was. I read a really great piece this week by a national columnist who was making the point that. That the murder rate in this country dropped. Because over the last. I guess maybe, I think probably since the 80s, 90s, it was the 90s. I believe since the 90s, our murder rate has dropped dramatically. And it's because the American citizenry was not okay with having a high murder rate. The American citizenry didn't like that we had so many murders. And so people called them in. People reported, people worked with the police. People did what they needed to do to make sure that this illegal activity called murder declined or decreased in their communities, which led to this nationwide. Of course, there were strategies in law enforcement and strategies in the judiciary, but all of that comes from the fact that we prioritize it. We said, murder's bad. We don't like murder. We want murder to go away. Well, we've never done that with racism. Even when the racism violates actual laws of the United States, even when racism violates people's rights as US Citizens, according to the Constitution, we have never, as a nation, taken a stand where you see something and you actually freaking say something. Imagine if every white person in America made phone calls every time they saw a police officer harass a person of color in a way that they don't think that they would have a white person. What if every time someone seemed to have received different service than a person who was white, a white person actually said something to the restaurant and started saying something on social media about it, maybe started a boycott, et cetera. Imagine we've never reached that point. So, honestly, yes, there are strategies, and those strategies are not going into the streets with a sign. Because at this point, who is listening to you? Certainly not Donald Trump, certainly not the Republican Congress, certainly not the authors of Project 2025, and definitely not the Supreme Court. Don't put on a pussy hat and take to the streets. You're not doing anyone any good. It is performative at worst, and it is a waste of your time at best. The best action is going to be community action, but also personal and individual action. But community action meaning, okay, let's all boycott this diner that shows really offensive videos of black people. Okay, let's all come together and boycott this baker who won't make a wedding cake for queer people. Let's all come together and write to our city councilmen, because we have seen that Officer badge number 48 number 6D often seems to rough up black boys or stop them on the street without reason.

Those are all great strategies, and those.

Are all things that I personally know.

To act on now.

So thank you for sharing them. I'm really grateful that you did.

And may I mention one more? One more.

Yes, of course.

There is an active effort in this country that no one is talking about to defund the Fraternal Order of Police. If you really want to do something about systemic racism and the enforcement of systemic racism. Because, honestly, there's a lot that the police do to enforce systemic racism. Another thing you can do is start working towards defunding and honestly dismantling the Fraternal Order of Police who make that sort of violence and that sort of abuse of power possible by ensuring that there is no accountability for police officers in this country.

Right, True. So you're clearly passionate and knowledgeable about this cause.

Thank you.

You corrected me last time.

You're not just passionate.

Our last conversation for people who are.

Listening and they want to learn more from you or they want to check out everything that you're offering. Where would be the best place to follow you online?

Melaniehoodwilsonandassociates.com and that's Melaniehood Wilson and Associates. Dot com is our website. I am on Facebook and Blue sky and Substack and threads and everything except. Except Twitter or X or whatever they're calling it this week. And you'll find me on any of those platforms. Melaniehoodwilson. Usually with a hyphen, sometimes without. Yeah, those are the best places to find me.

Okay.

Also, our company has its own social media platforms, so if you look for Melanie Hood Wilson and Associates on social media, we also are on every single one of those platforms I just named and Instagram.

Okay. Like I said in the beginning, I'm just so grateful that you made time.

To talk with me again because I.

Know you're busy anytime. Yeah, really anytime. As you can tell, I'm not real shy about talking, so anytime.

This is the Plural of youf. I'm Josh Morgan, and if you like this episode, please sign up for the Podcast monthly [email protected] newsletter. I think you'll enjoy it. That's all for now. Thank you for being kind today.

Take care.