Temple of the Forgotten: A Street Chaplain’s Network of Kindness - Rev. Charlotte Cramer (POY 59)

Whos the first person you go to when you need to talk something out? Maybe its your partner or a family member, or maybe its a friend in some instances, or even a therapist. But those of us who have people to listen to us are fortunate in a way, because the truly lonely among us have no one to validate their daily struggles. Those experiencing homelessness, especially long term homelessness, often fall under this trap. And thats where a rare group of ministers called street chaplains can help. So I talk with an interfaith street chaplain about her work, and I asked her how any of us can support her network for caregivers in the United States. I'm Josh Morgan. That conversation is coming up next on the plural of you, the podcast about people helping people. I'm a data analyst and sociologist living.

In Baltimore, Maryland, and I want to.

Honor as many kind and helpful people as I can in my lifetime because I aspire to be like them. I publish his podcasts on the 15th of every month so I can introduce them to you. You can check out the episodes from the past nine years. You can subscribe, if you havent already, wherever you get your podcasts. And if you wouldnt mind, tell a friend if you liked this episode. I hope you enjoy the show this month. Id like to introduce you to Reverend Charlotte Kramer. Shes an interfaith street chaplain who lives in San Anselmo, California, which is in the Bay Area. Shes also the founder of an organization called Temple of the Forgotten. Now, theres a couple of things I need to describe here, so ill start with the term street chaplain first. Street chaplains are ministers who care specifically for the spiritual needs of those experiencing homelessness. So people like Charlotte will seek out encampments where those experiencing homelessness have congregated, and theyll walk around and theyll seek out anyone whos looking for someone to talk to. In Charlotte's case, she has routes that she walks regularly in San Rafael, which is in Marin county. And she's built relationships with many who call the streets home there. Charlotte also seeks out individuals confined in the Marin county jail, so she has plenty to keep her busy. She and I will talk more about what her work is like in a bit, but she's described it as meeting people where they are and bearing witness to their lives. It's similar to what many people have mentioned before on this podcast, that sometimes being present and listening to someone is more helpful than giving the worlds most perfect advice. Charlotte has identified the systems and the norms in society that contribute to the rest of us. Looking past or even blaming those experiencing homelessness for their problems. She recently recognized the need for a cultural shift in how we treat the less fortunate, a network of common kindness, as she calls it. She also recognized that street chaplains across the country need support to continue what they do. So shes founded Temple of the forgotten to contribute to these and other issues surrounding spiritual care in all of our communities, starting with the Bay area. I found myself quietly rooting for Charlotte as we talked. Shes someone who is super dedicated to lifting others up, and I think youll hear it in her voice just like I did. Im eager to see how she and the temple of the forgotten will grow in the future. And thats because I suspect shes found a path in life where shes bound to succeed, and shes going to help countless others succeed as well. Here's my conversation with Reverend Charlotte Kramer, founder at Temple of the Forgotten.

So we were just talking before we hit record here, and you said that you've moved several times in your life. There came a point in your life when you decided that you wanted to be a chaplain. And I'm wondering if one of those moves was to, I guess, what would it be, a seminary to train as a child?

Seminary? Yeah. Yes, actually. Yes. And I mean, so I've wanted to be a minister since I was 16. Well, I think I've wanted to be like a helper in the world since I was a child, but it kind of manifested when I was 16. And so I've been on this path for a while, and I've made a lot of moves with that kind of goal and that vision in mind and, like, seeking out ways to kind of prepare myself to be a minister and then become a minister. But, yeah, I'm originally from New Jersey, and I moved out to California in 2018 or 2017 around that time. And I've moved many areas in many areas in California, and I've lived in Costa Rica for a little bit, too. And, yeah, I moved to the Bay Area for school to go to seminary, which ended up being online because it was the pandemic, so.

Oh, interesting.

I didn't know at the time, but I wanted, wanted to be here anyway, so.

Okay, it sounds like you're pretty well traveled then, but you landed in the Bay Area and I guess you decided to stay. Was that because of the opportunities you found after seminary?

Yeah, I just felt very called to be here and met a lot of people. And, yeah, my school was here. My school was Starr King School for the ministry, and it's based out of here and I just have a lot of connections here, and I was making more connections, and it just felt like I had this deepest calling to be in this. In this area for a little bit. I don't think it's my permanent home, but it is a place that has given me a lot and has taught me a lot, so I'm very grateful for it.

I'm glad to hear that.

Yeah.

Now, you're the first instance I've ever heard of a street chaplain before.

Yes. Pretty rare.

Can you.

Can you define what that means? What is a street chaplain?

So, a street chaplain is a person who works with folks who are unhoused, living outside, folks who are previously unhoused, folks who are in shelters. And I also see a street chaplain as somebody who works in jails, not prisons, very specifically jails, because a lot of folks who are unhoused are going to be in jail at some point in their life, unfortunately. And so a street chaplain kind of works with a particular population of people who are low income, marginalized, and often have mental illness, addiction, or severe trauma issues, or a mixture of all of them. It's a broad umbrella, but it's a specific population of folks who. The reason you haven't heard of a street chaplain before is they are out there. There's a decent amount of them, but it's not a common job. It's not like a job that you can go search on LinkedIn for. It hasn't been established, really, in the world yet. And there's a lot of street chaplains who don't get paid, are homeless themselves. You know, there's just. It's. There's a wide variety. There's a wide variety of folks who consider themselves street ministers or street chaplains. And I use that word interchangeably.

I see.

Yeah. I was curious.

How do you make a living as a street chaplain? Because you mentioned some aren't paid, but I assume that you do make a living from it.

Yeah. So making a living from being a straight chaplain is very rare. And I wouldn't say you exactly make a living. You make some money if you can. I was lucky. Part of the reason why I stayed in Marin was because I was able to find a job as a street chaplain with an organization that was paying me called the street Chaplaincy. And that organization is since been struggling, and so I made the choice to start my own organization so that I could actually pay myself for my work.

Okay.

It's unfortunately like, if you want to get paid to be a straight chaplain, you're either going to have to ask churches, synagogues, and mosques in your area for financial support to, like, do this work or, you know, find some sort of foundation or raise the money yourself and figure it out for yourself. But it is very much an individual pursuit at this moment. There are, in San Francisco, there's a San Francisco night ministry which does pay street chaplains to walk the streets, but it is by no means a living wage. In broad terms, if you meet a street chaplain in the United States, it's rare. I've yet to meet a street chaplain who says, like, yeah, I'm making a comfortable amount of money I can save, and I can have a house. You know, like, that's. That is rare, unfortunately.

Yeah.

Well, thank you for clarifying.

I had no idea that's what your situation was like or the situation for many street chaplains.

Yes. Yeah.

But it sounds like you love the work enough that, you know, like you said, this is your calling.

Yeah.

What is it about the populations that you serve specifically that keeps you coming back for more? Oh, do you find little joys in working with those that are unhoused or those that are in jail?

Yeah. The folks that I work with, handsound, are some of my favorite people on earth. I have the deepest love and respect for them. I care about them so much. And, yeah, I would say the experiences I have are, it's not little joys. It's very big joys. I mean, it's mixed with a lot of pain, of watching people go through really intense suffering. And so the joy is kind of mixed into this soup of other things. But the folks that I work with are some of the funniest, most charismatic, most interesting, unique, weird, just creative, kind folks that I've ever encountered. And it is an honor for me to learn about their lives and gain their trust. And the more that they trust me, the more that I trust them, the more that we get to know each other, the deeper our relationship becomes. And then you get to see sides of people that other people don't get to see, and you get to appreciate people for the wholeness of who they are. It is just such a profound work. It is just deeply spiritual, deeply gratifying. And the folks that I work with taught me so much about life, have taught me so much about joy, have taught me so much about connection. They are. Yeah. And they're interesting, too, you know, like, they're not the average person that you see walking down the street, especially in Marin. And it's an amazing thing to choose to dive into the uniqueness of humanity. And, you know, in a world where we do have these kind of restrictions and how we are in our society and how we relate to each other, to meet people who are not always in those same parameters and to relate to people in different ways and to connect with people in different ways and to learn about different realities is just a. It's such a fascinating and engaging experience.

That's a really beautiful description. I really appreciate you sharing that.

Thank you. Thank you.

And if I may say so, I looked up your YouTube channel, and I noticed that there's only one video.

Yeah, I just started it. Yeah. Yeah.

But I think a lot of the same qualities that you described, like, you know, some of the funniest people, some of the, you know, people that have, you know, their quirks and everything, I think in a way, you seem like you embody a lot of that, too, if I may say so.

Yes, absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I could see, you know, being out in that population, and, of course, it's not all positive and it's not all happy all the time. Yeah, I understand that. But also I could see, like, you meeting those people where they are and just vibing with them because you feel so similar to them.

I really appreciate you saying that. And that's something I often tell people is that one of the biggest surprises and joys that I found from starting this work in the very beginning was how similar I am to the folks that I work with and how I really. There's a part of me that feels very seen by them that I haven't feel like. I don't feel like I've had seen by other people in my life. And so it's been really interesting to, like, feel this kinship with them. And obviously, I've had a very different life. Very different life. But there is this, like, similarity that I relish in when I get to spend time with them. And it means that they care about me, too. And it means that I get to connect with them on this level that is very much about relationship as opposed to, like, me helping them, which is, like, I think, a whole other level of caring, and I'm really appreciative of it.

That's super interesting. It sounds like you've really found your niche.

I have. It's crazy. I'm still, like, in shock.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

Well, that kind of leads naturally to my next question. Do you have, like, a favorite story or two where you've helped people in their lives, that you feel like you made a big difference?

You know, I am still trying to figure out how to share the stories that I have with the folks that I work with. I struggle with it because I struggle with sharing stories of, like, me, like, helping people and, like, because oftentimes it's more about the connection than me, like, saving them or helping them in some way. And I struggle with telling stories of people's lives when I don't fully have their permission to tell those stories. But I would say that one of the biggest moments that I've ever had in my career, which, I don't know, career sounds weird, was last month. There's a person I've been working with for over a year, and he's in jail and has had a really, really tough, long life and long run with drugs.

And has this person been in jail for a year or just in and out?

Yes, in jail for a year, over a year. And he and I have slowly built a very trusting relationship. And this is a person, you know, a lot of people you meet in these situations and these scenarios have a lot of difficulty trusting folks and really opening up and sharing who they are. And he said that, that through his relationship with me, he learned what it feels like to trust someone, to, like, to be loved and cared for in a way where that he can deeply trust and that that makes him, when he gets out, makes him want to said, I'm going to look for other people to trust. And I. Yeah, I was just like.

I'm clapping right now just for people that can't see.

It was. That was the creme de la creme. The moment of just, like, this is. This is why I'm here. This is what I'm trying to do. This is my purpose. And I've had kind of moments with a lot of people where I can tell that they are choosing to trust me and they're choosing to open up emotionally. Like, there aren't these, like, grand stories of, like, me, like, saving the day and fixing their problems because it is rarely like that. A lot of these folks are deep in the trenches, but there are so many small little moments of just, like, this deep connection of sitting with someone on the street and just letting them cry and feel the pain and in a safe way where they couldn't do that with anyone else in their life. You know, I've done things that really help people move forward or that help people in their life, but I think that the moments that are significant to me are when people trust, trust me and choose to trust and choose to open up. And my hope is that the more that I do that, the more people will look at the folks around them in their community and say, oh, maybe there are other people out there who I can trust and be in a loving and caring relationship with. Yeah.

Wow, you're spitting right now. That's so awesome.

Thank you.

Yeah, that's just amazing. It reminds me a little bit of the work of. Are you familiar with Father Gregory Boyle?

I am, yes. Homeboy Industries. Yes. Yeah, I have his book, actually. Yeah.

Yeah, he wrote a book. Well, he's written at least three books that I'm aware of, but his first one, tattoos on the heart. There's a line, and I'm paraphrasing, but it's something like people started complaining because he was welcoming unhoused people into his church, and the church started smelling a little bit like the unhoused people because they had dirty feed and that kind of thing.

Yeah.

And it just makes me think, like, what you're describing reminds me of that quote and kind of vice versa, in that a lot of times, people are just looking for someone to listen. It's not necessarily like you're coming in to try to take over and save anybody. Just being with somebody and kind of sharing moments with them. A lot of times, that's really what they need, not a quick fix.

Absolutely. I completely agree. And that's kind of the core of Temple of the forgotten in many ways. And I think that that's something that we're really missing is that, like, a lot of us see the unhoused population as people who just need, like, money, housing, food, acts. You know, like, these very, like, simple things that are tangible and physical. And we forget that a huge part of what it means to be human is connection and care and somebody to listen to you and somebody to love you. And whenever I talk to folks, I always ask them. I'm like, do you remember a time where you were really struggling and your best friend or your parent or your partner came in and was there for you? Like, these folks, like, nine out of ten of times, don't have that. And, like, that is the crux of healing is, like, you can't move forward if you don't have people around you who are supporting you and loving you and listening to you. And sometimes that's all you really need. So I just. I really believe in that. Is that, like, you know, I feel like we've got, like, the United States. We're. We're working on the housing and the. All the physical stuff. Like, we've got, like, we're working on that, like, that's where our attention is. But I'm like, wherever is our attention on the actual, like, spiritual and emotional needs of these folks? Because if we don't address that, then we're not going to get anywhere. And I can almost guarantee that, like, if we don't address that and if we don't address the kind of rift in our community, we're not going to. This is not going to heal. This is not going to change. So that. Yeah. I'm very passionate about this.

Yeah.

It's clear. Yeah.

Yeah.

So you mentioned temple. They're forgotten. It sounds to me like you have established an organization, and you just established it this summer. Is that right?

Yep. It's been a. It's been a little baby child since the beginning of this year, January, but it became real this summer.

Gotcha. But you're looking to establish what is essentially like, teaching people how to create, like I mentioned with the Gregory Boyle quote.

Yeah.

It's like you're trying to help people create safe spaces around the country in different capacities.

Yeah.

One question I wanted to ask you.

About the temple of the forgotten is, you know, you have this mission in place, and, you know, you've clearly given it a lot of thought, but if.

You could wake up tomorrow and, like.

Wave a magic wand or snap your fingers or have your prayers answered.

Yeah.

What would the vision look like if it was a reality?

I just want to say I love that question, and I really appreciate it. It makes me a little bit emotional because it just. I think that it's possible, you know, I really believe in it. And for me, like, what I see, like, if I could wave my magic wand, is essentially like a web across the United States of communities, local communities, big cities, having. Yeah. Spaces of belonging where people can come and meet, having a places where people can have healthy, positive, honest conversations around homelessness, with people who are experiencing homelessness, with policymakers, where, like, conversations, like, healthy conversations can happen. Having a lot of different organizations that are supporting street chaplains who are going out into the community across the United States and also in this vision is just this general shift, and it's like a subtle one, but it's just my hope and my dream is a shift in how we talk about homelessness, because there is so much fear, hatred, ignorance, judgment, discomfort, anger. Like, there's so much that goes into the way we actually talk to each other about what homelessness is. And my dream is to have there be a shift across the United States where we talk about it with compassion and understanding and where we don't see people who are experiencing homelessness as, like, the homeless, but rather as folks who are experiencing something really traumatizing and who need a lot of love and support. And so just to have that shift and have that shift in how our government talks about homelessness and our local governments and our communities and, yeah, again, to just have these spaces where all people can come together and share a meal or do an art project or, you know, just to, like, have these places and these moments where people begin to come together and. And see that we are one whole community rather than two separate communities, that's great.

I really think you're on the ground floor of making that happen in some capacity, you know, because what I've observed in talking with various people over the years who've kind of been on the early stages of projects, I mean, not necessarily like, what you're describing, but, you know, their own causes, for example.

Yeah, yeah.

If they put in the work and.

They start rallying support kind of slowly, you know, eventually there is, like, a groundswell that happens. So I think you're on the right path here. It sounds appreciated. I mean, you found your niche with being a street chaplain, but, you know, in establishing temple, they're forgotten. It really sounds like you've. You tapped into something that's really needed.

Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it. It's been quite a vulnerable journey to do this, and, yeah, I mean, there's kind of no guarantee of stability, and there's. It's a tough subject, and it's a tough thing to, quote, unquote, sell to people and appreciate you saying that, because, yeah, I am just in this wrestling and the surrender to this kind of vision, and it doesn't feel like it's mine. And I I don't want to own it in any way. And I. What I really want is to bring it out in the world and let it run and let others take it, because I just think that this is something that belongs to all of us as a community, and I believe that our communities will all find a lot of healing from working with this concept, and it'll go beyond homelessness, and it'll go to the disconnection that we have in our country right now. And I have a lot of love, and again, the word honor and just a lot of fear, too. It's scary. It's a very scary process, and it's definitely been a learning lesson for me.

So, speaking of your work and speaking of the temple of the forgotten, if somebody's listening and they hear in your voice that you have this yearning to help others and they want to contribute and get involved because you are setting up a volunteer network.

Yes. Yeah.

How can listeners support you in your work?

Well, there's multiple things. So, yeah, if you're in the Bay Area right now and specifically Marin. But Bay Area also works if you're interested in being part of the common kindness network. That is our newest project, which is a network that basically connects volunteers to service providers, like a social worker, a case manager, and even a public defender. And those service providers are aware of the needs of their on house clients, and so they connect those needs to a volunteer. And a volunteer can help out and help someone set up a bank account, help someone fill out paperwork, do things that service providers may not have the time or possibility of doing. And so if somebody's in Marin and listening, then right now the common kindness network is about to start their pilot. Other than that, the temple of the forgotten and the common Kindness network is not local in Marin. It's not just local in Marin. Like, my hope is to bring this to other places. And if somebody wants to start their own version of the common kindness network or their own straight chaplain organization, or if they want to bring temple the forgotten, that is a huge way to help, is to bring this idea and this world to your community. And then other than that, we are fundraising right now. It's a really big process, and all of the financial support that I can get goes directly into our programs and into creating Temple of the forgotten and doing all these amazing things that we're doing. So, yes, and also just telling people about what Temple of forgotten is, that's like the biggest thing.

You mentioned the common Kindness network, and you are looking for volunteers for that as well. What would make for a good volunteer for the network?

Anybody who is willing to try something new. I would say the whole purpose of the common kindness network is to show that anybody can volunteer with the unhoused and that there are ways to help that are both big and small. If you're somebody who has a lot of experience with mental illness, addiction, if you want to go into the heart of the encampment, fantastic. You were part of the common kindness network. If you're somebody who's never really spoken to, someone who's unhoused and you're not quite sure, also fantastic. You're part of the common kindness network. There are so many small tasks, there's so many big, but, you know, it's like there's such a wide variety and what the common kindness network is trying to promote is this idea that you can volunteer and be part of people's lives and help your community in a way that feels good for you, in a way that fits with your boundaries, your time boundaries, your energetic boundaries, you know, your safety boundaries. And so it really is for anyone, and it's just to show that anyone can help. So there's small things that people can do if they feel comfortable helping someone with paperwork. Fantastic. That will take you 45 minutes. And really, anybody, anybody who is willing and curious to help, we'll make it work. We'll work with your schedule, we'll work with your needs, your boundaries, and we'll see what happens.

That's so cool. Thanks to now, if we want to follow you or the temple of the forgotten online, what's the best way to do that?

So right now, we're in the midst of starting up social media, because if you can believe it, I am not a social media person.

It's so hard. You just have to have the right mentality for it.

Exactly. But luckily, I think we're going to start having someone else do it, which would be great. But other than that, templeoftheforgotten.org, comma, you can sign up for a newsletter. The newsletter is going to be going out soon. The first one I'm on LinkedIn, Reverend Charlotte Cramer. And yeah, if you sign up for the newsletter, then following me on Instagram and Facebook and all the social medias will be part of that. It'll tell you what that is. And then obviously also my YouTube channel. I've just started a YouTube channel where I talk about my work as a street chaplain at Revcharlotte.

I have to say, like, just listening to you discuss your story and, you know, the work that you're involved in and now transitioning into this new organization, this new network and everything, I just really feel very proud of you and like, I'm rooting for you, if that makes sense.

Thank you. I really appreciate that.

I just really want to see you succeed because I just hear it in your voice that you, you have this compassion for others that, you know, not everybody has. And you probably taken a long time to develop that in different ways. So I just. I really appreciate you sharing that with me.

Thank you so much, Josh. I really appreciate your listening and your questions. It's very clear that you have a deep connection with the caring for others, and I really appreciate your support. It's very special for me. And this opportunity to talk about my work is amazing. So thank you.

This is the plural of you. I'm Josh Morgan, and the show's website is pluralofu.org. dot.

That's all for now. Thank you for being kind.